We were having a bottle of wine after work at the office. My Jewish co-worker asked to open the bottle and pour himself a glass first. He explained that he couldn’t drink it after we poured it for him or opened the bottle. This struck me as extremely racist, but I didn’t say anything because I didn’t want to offend anyone. We let him open the bottle and pour himself a glass first. Why do Jews have this unusual tradition?
11 responses so far ↓
1 Blue Foots™ // Oct 26, 2008
About as racist as you were when you TROLLED along earlier and said you were converting.. right?
2 jaipaul d // Oct 26, 2008
it a shame since they were rejected by jesus even though they are god’s people. christ went to the gentiles.
3 THE MIGHTY RA // Oct 26, 2008
He sounds like a barrel of laughs, what a dick!
4 hare krishna ! // Oct 26, 2008
Its not something ive heard of before. was the guy very orthodox ?
In the past , the whole idea of something being kosher, especially wine and bread was that these things were often offered to gods and idols. To make sure that their food and wine hadnt been dedicated or offered an idol or false god ( from the jewish point of view ) the idea of kosher ( where the entire proces from sewin the seed to packing the final product is done by jews ) was invented. since worshiping false gods intentially or unitentially was considered the worst thing you could do…
your jewish co worker was probably acting in line with that. Chances are he was trying not to offend you by not drinking a non kosher wine at all.. it sounds unusual though - best thing you can do is ask him.. he shouldnt be offended …
5 Selar // Oct 26, 2008
it is surprising to me he drank it at all since i thought jewish only consumed kosher foods. he may of done that because the jewish believe they are only supposed to eat clean uncontaminated foods, and perhaps he did not want to drink after a mere gentile did. But ironically the saved gentiles are theoretically the new Jews, so I guess jokes on him
6 Paperback Writer JPA KosherNinja // Oct 26, 2008
I am Jewish. I don't have any issue with having a glass from any bottle opened by anyone. I don't give a damn if they are Jews, Gentiles or little purple men from the planet Mars.
http://www.ajewwithaview.com
EDIT TO SELAR
No, you are not Jews. You are a non Jew. If being Jewish matters that much to you - convert.
If you don't want to do that, shut up.
7 Frau Asher /JPA/ Heathen // Oct 26, 2008
answer: Blue Foots is right - your “questions” are usually thinly veiled attacks on Judaism and Jews. You really should hold back from asking conflicting questions or you reveal yourself to be a troll. Then again, trolls usually are exposed when the truth comes out.
Earlier you wanted to convert to Judaism but changed your mind because Jews treat converts bad - when that was revealed to be a fallacy, you change and tell us a tale about someone from your job appearing to be racist or superior in attitude.
Leading questions designed to attack others = troll
8 kismet // Oct 26, 2008
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??????
Being Jewish and Orthodox, I have never heard of such a thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
9 Michelle R // Oct 26, 2008
Just to give you a straight answer, even though I have a hard time believing your premise - the odds of you and your coworkers getting together over a bottle of kosher wine is pretty slim, considering how few kosher wines are available outside of major cities for purchase, practically none of which are ever available in non-kosher restaurants and bars. So you’re asking us to accept that you and your coworkers went to a wine shop and chose kosher wine to consume somewhere, because otherwise the entire story is impossible. Anyone Jewish who cares about the laws about non-Jews and wine, would not drink any wine that was not kosher. So you’re already on shaky ground.
But let’s say that that’s what you did.
The kosher laws that pertain to wine are very specifically set up to avoid their being dedicated to foreign gods. Dedicating the first harvest or first vintage of a vinyard is a longstanding tradition, which is still in practice in some cultures today, sometimes just out of tradition or for good luck. To deal with this, for wine to be considered kosher, its production must be overseen by Jews from the time the grape is picked to the time the bottle is uncorked and served. However, once a kosher wine itself has been cooked or boiled in any way, it is considered no longer at risk for dedication to idol worship, and becomes fine for anyone to touch, pour, etc, and for Jews to consume. In the last half century, many wines - including some non-kosher vintages - now undergo flash-pasteurizing, where the entire bottle (or cask) is boiled for around a second, in order to prevent the spread of mold on the fermenting grapes. This makes the wine “mevushal,” (”cooked” or “boiled”), and anyone can open and pour it without it altering the wine’s kosher status.
In this day and age, roughly 85% of all kosher wines are mevushal.
So not only would your scenario have to include going out to specially buy a bottle of kosher wine, you would have to have found a non-mevushal bottle. But hey, if that’s what happened, then that’s why your friend opened the bottle himself.
And for the record, if that scenario was true, he also would have opened and poured the wine for himself instead of having someone Jewish who was not Orthodox do so, as not keeping the Sabbath is also a consideration in whether the person pouring can render the status of non-mevushal wine problematic. So once again, if you’re looking for signs of “racism,” you’re barking up the wrong religion.
10 marcus // Oct 26, 2008
You are, of course, the same loser who has been posting “questions” that are actually a veiled attempt to denegrate Jews. You have been posting under a variety of names, all with a short first name followed by an initial. Based on the large number of questions you have asked, all of which are designed to portray Jews in a negative light, I feel you must either be mentally deranged or just plain bigoted. Most people who read your question realized what a pathetic fool you are. Get a life.
11 justwondering // Oct 26, 2008
I’m not sure if he was actually prohibited from drinking it if you poured it, but jews are only permitted to drink kosher wine which is certified as kosher.
The reason for this is because wine was often used in biblical times in ceremonies by idolators, and being worshipping an idol was considered a very serious sin, jews were not to have anything to do with any object used in the worship of another god.
Since wine was often used, jews refrained from drinking or accepting wine from non-jews because they could not be sure that the wine was not made for or use in idol worshipping rituals.
Of course today we can usually be sure that the wine was not used in any form of idol worship, but orthodox jews can be very rigid in tradition.
You should not take it personally because he only sees this as a rule he is obligated to follow and not anything about you as a person.